A majority of people want a spiritual relationship with God/Higher Power in some form. The Christian church as a whole has failed miserably in regards to reaching out to the queer (I say queer not to offend but to include all those mentioned above) community.
The church is viewed as a hate mongering society who wishes to oppress people due to their sexual orientation. Going so far as to deny gay/lesbians communion, banning them from their congregations, and trying to cast the ’spirit’ of homosexuality out of them. Again I’m talking about the church as a whole. I know there are denominations that are not like this at all.
Christians often quote scripture to back up their belief that homosexuality is a sin. The bible does say ‘whosoever’ that means everyone. Gay, straight, black, white, purple, what ever the person is the word whosoever means you.
For many centuries, the Christian Church’s attitude toward human sexuality was very negative: sex was for procreation, not for pleasure; many expressions of heterosexuality, like homosexuality, were considered sinful.
Christians often talk about Sodom and Gomorrah. (Genesis 19:1-25) Christians often say that the cities were destroyed because of the ’sin’ of homosexuality. In reading the story in the bible the bible clearly states that “all the people from every quarter” came to Lots house. That means everyone in the city of Sodom showed up at the house. All of the people in Sodom were gay? In no culture have there been that many gay people in one city. Everyone in the city would have to be gay, by the thinking of Christians.
Second thing, why would Lot offer his daughters to the men to rape, if he knew all the men were gay? Third, I wonder why Christians play up Lot as such a Godly man when he offers his daughters to the men around his house, and later on he commits incest with them?
Ezekiel 16:48-50 gives the reason for the destruction of the cities. They had abundance of material goods, but did not take care of the poor, and they worshipped idols.
People tend to forget when reading the bible the context that it was written in. To whom was the person speaking? Why was it being said? Keep in mind the Romans were a pretty sexually open society, they worshiped idols, and hated the Jews.
Also the bible has been translated numerous times, and wasn’t written down until years after the events occurred. In today’s world that would leave room for plenty of mistakes.
If you were to ask me about what my life was like at twenty eight when I’m ninety I’m not sure you would get the whole truth but the memory of truth.
Another Scripture that is quoted is: “Thou shalt not lie with a man as thou would like with a woman.” Lev. 18:22 My recommendation is to ask that person to read the entire book of Leviticus. Because that book also demands no eating of pork, lobster, shrimp, oysters, or rare meat The list of don’ts goes on and on.
Another passage that is often talked about is: “For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men.”
This passage doesn’t condemn people who are born gay. It says that you shouldn’t do sexually behavior that is unnatural to you. Heterosexuals should not be with homosexuals and should not try to become homosexual. And gays and lesbians shouldn’t try and be straight.
I think that in the end each person has to search their own spirit. I have come to discover that God/Higher Power doesn’t give a crap whom I love as long as I love.
Sexual acts are only sinful when they exploit, or abuse another person. When sex isn’t done in a loving way, in a loving relationship then it’s not what God wants.
I know in my heart and my soul that God loves me, and accepts me. That my love and life with Cara isn’t a ’sin.
How do I know this? The Bible says that I am fearfully and wonderfully made. That includes my sexuality.
The above information came form reading books, and looking things up. One of the sources is the MCC church pamphlet. The others were some sites on the web. I don’t want to plagiarize so that’s the best I can do.
Filed under: Christianity, God | Tagged: bisexual, Christianity, Faith, gay, gay Christian, God, homosexual, jesus, Lesbian, queer, transgendered
Amen, sister!
Stellar post! I’ve heard a theory that when the New Testament condemns “homosexuality” they are actually condemning the act of sexual congress being offered to heathen gods, and that homosexuality itself wasn’t considered sinful.
The problem with homosexuals is that they have to make excuses all the time for why they are homosexual. Homosexuality is a lifestyle choice not something you are born with. You always have to make something up to justify what you are doing. If you want to be gay, then be gay but stop making excuses.
Also, if you’re not a scholar, then you shouldn’t be trying to interpret the Bible with your own philosophy. Study the manuscripts, read the Greek and Hebrew, and then maybe what you have to say will be relevant…because your opinions mean nothing.
In the end we will all see who is right now won’t we!
in response to “lexi”‘ ’s comment:
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i never realized i chose to be an homosexual.
the only choice i had was to conform, or not, to it.
but what is inside of me, the way i feel, cannot be changed nor ignored…
as for dismissing lesbiansaidwhat’s opinion like that
only means that we can just as well dismiss lexi’s comment.
“it” means absolutely nothing!!
christians keep invoking the scriptures to justify their homophobia.
is it not fair that some, with christian spirituality, feel inclined to justify their being
with the same scriptures?
i say, come judgementday, if there is such a thing, some people may have a rude awakening…
as “some” expect “to be right”!!
now,
there’s something here that we do chose, as a society: what is right, or wrong…
& these things tend to change with time,
as history has shown us.
don’t need to be a scholar to see that!!
wishing a long happy life to lexi, in all his smug self-rightousness…
HUGZ2EVERYONE_TICKLEBEAR
Shush, I’ve also heard that there was no word for homosexuality due to it not being an issue.
Lexi, Sorry you feel that way. I respect your opinion. Thank you for sharing it. Obviously I disagree, but we are allowed to do that.
Ticklebear, Societies through out history didn’t have issue with GLBT, in some societies they were held in high esteem. Then the ‘Chrisitians’ decided they needed to be ‘converted’ and then being GLBT became taboo. (Christians is in quotes as not all Christians are judgemental)
Thanks for another insightful post!
Shush, I’ve heard similar theories.
Lexi, do you have scholarly research to back-up your “homosexuality is a lifestyle choice” theory? The majority of the research I have read indicates that sexual orientation and gender identity is something we are all born with.
exactly!!
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as for myself, i live in a society which is currently more open toward GLBT.
the province of quebec is not a perfect model, but considering where we were, like 30-50 years ago, we’ve come a long way. the catholic church had long exerted absolute power over our politics & our society, pervading every aspects of our lives, making people live in sheer fear. but then, we had “la revolution tranquille” (the quiet revolution, if you prefer…)
things spirituals were relegated to the church, & it was kicked out of our bedrooms & other aspects of our lives. it is a good place, where i live, still…
BTW, i will linked this, back on my blog.
good show!!
HUGZ_TICKLEBEAR
Why yes, I do have a scholastic degree Meg. So what books are you reading that indicate as you say sexual orientation and gender identity is as you say “something we are all born with?”
Ticklebear – you can dismiss my comment but it’s truth. Life is made of choices. You have a free will and you can chose to love, hate, lie, tell the truth, cheat, steal, be judgmental, or prejudice and it’s no different than you chosing to be a lesbian. You chose your sexual preference and that is fine. The issue is not your preference, the issue is that it’s your choice. We do not come out of the womb deciding to be as I stated above, it has to do with your will and your choice.
Also, I am anything but homophobic because I have a lot of friends that are gay and lesbians. They are truly wonderful people and we accept each other for who we are. Why does there always have to be a great debate and issue regarding the subject?
So what is your explanation regarding bisexuals? Were they born to switch sexual gender identity from day to day? Just curious what all of you feel about that.
Is it really fair to throw all Christians in the same catagory? No all Christians turn away the gay community. Maybe you are over sensative about your own sexuality.
Ticklebear – you say I’m smug and self righteous, I think you need to look in the mirror because you are ultra sensative.
Lexi, I never questioned whether or not you had a degree. I was just interested in what research you were using to back up your opinion. I’m assuming you’re heterosexual…is this something you chose or have you always felt an attraction to people of the other sex/gender?
I just think it’s important to respect people for who they are. When you make a statement like “the problem with homosexuals is…” it comes off as less than respectful. I know I won’t change your opinion any more than you’ll change mine. I suppose we’ll have to agree to disagree.
“ultra-sens[i]tive”, perhaps…
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but not afraid to look at myself in the mirror.
i know who i am.
i just find it odd that a str8 that pretends to have no problems with gays, having them as friends even!! (wow!!), has issues with the notion of innate vs choice.
it is not a “choice” you ever had to make. you know nothing of our personal history, & i don’t know how long you’d last walking in our shoes. (but maybe i’m selling you a bit short here, so i’ll give you the benefit of the doubt…).
so what then?
what is YOUR issue?
the fact that we discuss christianity & the scriptures?
the church has always been our strongest & most vocal opponent. benedictus the 16th… is a prime example of what we should beware. i don’t know Lexi, where you’re from, but there are also political parties that embrace such opinions as well. i know we have “those” here in canada… they do not reflect the whole majority, but a malignant minority that manages to gather enough power to cause trouble. the laws that we had finally achieved to gain for our rights & protection are in danger of being challenged & nulled!!!
even the right to abortion is being questionned!!
on another point,
have you ever been beaten up by gangs because of who you are? have you ever feared of going to jail because of who you are? did you grow up in fear of what your family will think of you? fear the rejection? being harassed at work because of it?
have you?
(& don’t tell me i have issues!!
i have good reasons.
& i don’t like being reduced to a “lifestyle choice…”
it’s demeaning!)
i remember feeling an attraction for men even before preschool, though not understanding it clearly, & definitely not knowing what to do about it. i’ve learned since…
i am homosexual, (not a lesbian, Lexi…)
not by choice.
but i chose honesty in my life.
that’s more than many can say,
from what i’ve observed in my lifetime…
we’re not throwing everybody in the same basket.
regarless of the denomination, be you christian, muslim, whatever you want to describe yourself as,
you always have the opportunity to distinguish yourself from the rest.
we don’t mind being proven wrong in that aspect…
you wonder “why does there always have to be a great debate and issue regarding this subject”.
i presume then that you’ve discussed this with your many gay & lesbian friends? if they couldn’t get through to you, or if they agree with you (???), then what’s the point?
you’re fully entitled to your ideas, but don’t expect too many gays to agree with you. homosexuality is not a fad, the flavor of the month-thing. it reaches deep into the core of who you are. but then, you wouldn’t know about this…
please,
tell us:
what gets to your core?
what do you hold dearest?
& where do you stand on christianity?
please!!
i’ll be checking regularly for your answer.
i really want to know.
wow!
a str8 managed to pique my curiosity!!!
(joking…)
if only you knew me, you’d know that already.
i’m not THAT malicious…
talk to you later!!
HUGZ_TICKLEBEAR
First of all Meg – let me apologize for what appeared to you to be an insensative remark. That was not my intention.
Secondly, I don’t appreciate the fact that Christians are all lumped into the same category. All Christians are not the same, not all Christians do not have attitudes nor lack love. It’s an unfair assumption.
Thirdly, I’m not going to go through and argue every scripture point that was written above, but there are some true errors in the interpretation that was written. It could be because it wasn’t studied correctly or it could be slanted to make one feel good about where they are in life. I don’t know, but I do know that the interpretation is incorrect. One point I will make regarding Lot. If you actually read the Bible, you will find that Lot did not commit incest with his daughters, they came to him when he was drunk. That is a big difference then what was written above. They took advantage when he was under the influence. Now, I don’t know about you, but there are people that do things when they are drunk and have no recollection on their part the next day. Could this be the case with Lot, it could be, we will not know. You cannot be given the impression that Lot willing went out and committed incest is incorrect.
I personally as a Christian do not accept what the “preacher” says just because he says it. It’s his interpretation. I study for myself and go back to the Greek and Hebrew to find how it was originally written. I have never been a person to follow someone blindly, I will seek out for myself the truth and then I will go…not just because I was told to do it. This has caused me lots of trouble over the years, but I don’t care, it’s who I am.
To address some things Ticklebear said. You say you don’t know how long I could walk in your shoes….well try walking in mine. I am a Christian in today’s society. Do you think that is a popular thing? No it’s not. You want rights, well what about us. We expect our rights too. So maybe we don’t walk down the same path, but we want the same thing out of life. Why is it that our youth can have after school programs such as alternative lifestyle choices, but they can’t have Bible clubs? I don’t care if you have your clubs, but why can’t we as well? We have to fight to have the same rights and why is that?
You say – “have you ever been beaten up by gangs because of who you are? have you ever feared of going to jail because of who you are? did you grow up in fear of what your family will think of you? fear the rejection? being harassed at work because of it?
have you?”
Do you know as a Christian, you can be thrown in jail if you preach against a homosexual? Well you can. Do you think Christianity is popular in a family that have nothing to do with church or God? Do you know what it’s like to have to hide at work that you are a Christian because there are so many homosexuals that hate them and lump you in one group? So are we so different Ticklebear? Your situation is really no different. Also, when I was younger, I was overweight, and I was picked on and beaten up because of it. So I think I know what it’s like to be you in this respect.
You don’t know me….and I don’t know you. But the one thing I know, is that God loves each of us, he loves us and he created us. It says in scripture that he formed us in the womb. He knows how many hairs we have on our head. He knows all, that’s how much he loves us. We are his. He cares when we hurt, he cares when we are happy.
All of us sin. In the old testament the way for them to atone for sin was animal sacrifices on the altar. In the new testament, Jesus was the sacrifice, God’s only son. God loves each of us that much that he gave up his only son that we can have forgiveness of our sins. It is our free will accept it or not but it doesn’t makes us any less in his eyes. That is true love.
You mock my friendships with my homosexual friends which is unfair because as you stated, “I don’t know you.” No you don’t. I have a genuine love for my friends. We’ve discussed these issues, but we don’t think any less of each other. It’s a matter of our own free will and choices, it doesn’t mean we can’t still enjoy the company of each other. I support, I encourage and am committed to the person, not who they choice to have as a partner. I realize not all Christians are like that, but they will answer to God for their hatred. God is not prejudice!
Now, I personally do not believe in abortion. I believe that a child has a right to be born after conception. If someone wants to give it up for adoption great, because there are so many that can’t have children. But to kill and innocent baby is no different than killing a 5 year old. God had a purpose for those babies but that is my belief. Others can believe differently, it comes down to our own choice.
So having said all that, I will stop. Have a good day!
Note that Jesus still defines sin as lack of love (Matthew 22:36-40). Fornication and adultery are unloving because each has a victim. What is unloving about a couple in a homosexual love relationships? Neither is victim, neither is unloved. Where is the hurt? Who is the victim being sinned against? No Gospel writer nor prophet covers homosexuality because it is not a sin issue. The King James Version comes closest to a correct English translation of two condemning nouns used in Leviticus 18:22 against homosexuals. It translates as “sexual immorality”, not necessarily homosexual. (Remember that “homosexual” was coined about 1865, so any translation using a form of that word is a lie that needs to be ammended. In 1946 it premiered in an English Bible.) If God didn’t want men (or women?) to have sex with other men, He would have said “Man shall not lie with man PERIOD That whole “…as with a woman” thing condemns straight men pretending to make it with a woman.
Thank you for your opinion Fred Conwell!
my, my, Lexi!!
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i’m quite pleased with your reply.
thank you!
it shows you in a whole different spectrum.
you say you don’t follow blindly. that you seek the truth yourself. now, THAT is something i can respect. one who thinks for himself. it is always better to find your own dialogue with god, then to complacently let someone else be the intermediary. good for you.
again, i DO respect that.
from the rest that you wrote, i take it we all have our own cross to bear… i can empathise. it’s just that your first comment came off as rather harsh. if you drop a stone in a pond, you’ve got to expect ripples…but now that you’ve elaborated a bit more about yourself, you seem more relatable. i still don’t agree with your idea, but i would definitely do coffee with you, to chat some more. (real coffee, just coffee, nothing kinky here…)
i was raised catholic, because of my mom, but by age 9, i knew it wasn’t for me. i went to baptist church with my dad during my teens, but that wasn’t for me either. what i saw there appalled me. they were big on preaching, but the self-rightousness, & the hypocrisy
weren’t too christian in my opinion. i’ve had other experiences with religion, but it didn’t stick either. but i respect people in their need for religion. god knows i had to, when tending to patients at the hospital…
through family & my work, i’ve always known jesuits & oblats, & some were quite interesting fellows. it made for lively conversations as these orders are more inclined to discussion. so, i know not all christians are the same. as i said, some do stand above the rest…
as for abortion, i tend to share your opinion, about the babies…but i still think a woman’s rights over her body should prevail.
so, never meant to antoganize you Lexi, just glad to see you a little more clearly now.
in this valentine’s day, may everyone feel loved today!!
& thanks to our host for letting us invading her like that!!
have a good day everyone!!
HUGZ_TICKLEBEAR
I appreciate your comments Ticklebear…..and I do apologize for come off so harsh.
As far as coffee goes…..I don’t do coffee so as long as they serve Diet Pepsi I’m there. lol
Lexi
diet pepsi for you,
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cafe au lait for me…
we’d manage!!
to each his caffeine!!
HUGZ
My partner and I are a legally married couple in Massachusetts. We are proud members of a congregation of the United Church of Christ. This is an intelligent church that understands the context of the bible and that Jesus was sent to do. It is best chruch for gay people.
Jos76
http://www.jos76.wordpress.com
I’ll have to check it out. Thanks for the ref to the church. Congrats on being legally married!!! Go Mass.
I don’t think homosexuality is a choice…you don’t choose who you’re attracted to. You just are. One doesn’t wake up one day and say “I think today…I will find women attractive.” You simply do. The choice is acting on it.If you’re gay, you’re gay- that’s not a choice.
It’s like…race. I’m black, right? I didn’t choose to be. I just am. But say I was lighter skinned and I could totally pass for white. Well, I can go around telling everyone in the world that I was white and they could believe me and that’s the lifestyle I would choose to live- being a white woman. But, by nature, in truth, even if no one else knows it, I’m black. I didn’t choose to be. But I can pretend that I’m not, and that’s my choice.
The “choice” thing…just doesn’t make sense. I mean…yeah sure, it’s a choice to date men or women. I could…choose to be with a man. That doesn’t make me straight, though. It makes me…conforming to the ideals of society for fear of discrimination. I’d still be attracted to women. I just wouldn’t be with one. Which doesn’t change the fact that I’m gay. Because…I’m still attracted to women, and not to men, even if I’m dating a man….
catch my drift?
I’m Christian, by the way. God loves me, even if I make him mad sometimes. I don’t like to use the Bible to refute things so much…everyone has their own interpretation. You can say I’m wrong. I could say you’re wrong. Neither of us are probably right. It’s two thousand years old, editted, re-translated…quite frankly, only God knows what He meant. It’s like…I don’t know, trying to figure out the meaning behind Kafka or Nietzche or some other dude/dudette’s writing. We can say whatever we want, but only he/she knows what is right. So, to be honest, research can be done as much as you want. I intend to do heavy research, quite frankly, just to have my own sense of truth. But everyone’s got their own sense of truth and I don’t care what ANYONE has to say about spirituality- unless God spoke to you himself, you have the possibility of being incorrect.
There is NOTHING in this world that if foolproof…I think that includes the Bible. That’s why it-the world- and we are tainted. By nature. We didn’t choose to be. We just are. But that’s okay, because God loves us anyway.
Anyway, I should be doing history homework. Instead of reading my textbook, I’m reading blogs and joining heated discussions about gays and God. Well…it’s somewhat productive, I guess.
-madame e.